11 users responded in " Access to credit: Why the young generation should avoid it "
Subscribes to this post comment rss or trackback urlKym said,
They do not know why they are going to college (To get an degree is not an answer).
Yeah, just try getting a decent job without a degree, whether or not you actually need any of the knowledge you would have acquired in college in order to perform the job. Nowadays to get a middle-class-wage-paying job, you have to have that degree to even get potential employers to read your resume. I don’t know about your field, but this is certainly true in mine.
For the record, the reason I went to college was to shut my parents up. My whole life they told me “you’re smart, so you’re going to college, and we’re not going to pay for it”. So even though I didn’t want to go to college, I did, to shut them up. I got a full scholarship, but I got tired of it and dropped out. I couldn’t find a job making more than $10/hr until I borrowed some money and paid for some certifications. Now I’m 27 and finally have a job that allows me to not live from paycheck to paycheck, and I’m working on getting a degree, which is required if I ever want to qualify for a promotion.
Yeah, just try getting a decent job without a degree, whether or not you actually need any of the knowledge you would have acquired in college in order to perform the job. Nowadays to get a middle-class-wage-paying job, you have to have that degree to even get potential employers to read your resume. I don’t know about your field, but this is certainly true in mine.
For the record, the reason I went to college was to shut my parents up. My whole life they told me “you’re smart, so you’re going to college, and we’re not going to pay for it”. So even though I didn’t want to go to college, I did, to shut them up. I got a full scholarship, but I got tired of it and dropped out. I couldn’t find a job making more than $10/hr until I borrowed some money and paid for some certifications. Now I’m 27 and finally have a job that allows me to not live from paycheck to paycheck, and I’m working on getting a degree, which is required if I ever want to qualify for a promotion.
Dreamer said,
yeah right on, but never mind eh? Stocks on sale so fill up! LOL
Kris said,
Thanks for using one of my favorite words, “schadenfreude.”
And on the topic of college, I dropped out many years ago when I got married.
The idea was that I would work full time while my husband got his degree, and then he would work full time while I got my degree.
Although I attended some classes in the evening, I never went back to college full time. When my husband finished his degree, I had a fairly decent job working in the public relations department for a nonprofit organization where I produced various publications.
The two previous predecessors in my job both had master’s degrees in journalism. If I had gone back to school, it would have taken me two years to get a bachelor’s degree in journalism plus another year or two to get a master’s degree. That would have cost a tremendous amount for tuition plus three or four years of lost wages. And then when I got out, I may well have ended up with a job that payed the same as the job I had before re-entering school.
So, economically, it never made sense for me to get a degree.
(My husband eventually ended up with three degrees, so I like to say that we ended up with an average of 1.5 degrees per person.)
And, for what it’s worth, my husband and I later founded our own business and managed to retire when we were both 49. (Jacob, not nearly as good as your being able to retire at a much earlier age.)
And on the topic of college, I dropped out many years ago when I got married.
The idea was that I would work full time while my husband got his degree, and then he would work full time while I got my degree.
Although I attended some classes in the evening, I never went back to college full time. When my husband finished his degree, I had a fairly decent job working in the public relations department for a nonprofit organization where I produced various publications.
The two previous predecessors in my job both had master’s degrees in journalism. If I had gone back to school, it would have taken me two years to get a bachelor’s degree in journalism plus another year or two to get a master’s degree. That would have cost a tremendous amount for tuition plus three or four years of lost wages. And then when I got out, I may well have ended up with a job that payed the same as the job I had before re-entering school.
So, economically, it never made sense for me to get a degree.
(My husband eventually ended up with three degrees, so I like to say that we ended up with an average of 1.5 degrees per person.)
And, for what it’s worth, my husband and I later founded our own business and managed to retire when we were both 49. (Jacob, not nearly as good as your being able to retire at a much earlier age.)
SimplicityinKansas said,
Schadenfreude is how I feel in many ways too. I like your supply side example of low aggregate savings translates into higher rates of interest given the supply and demand interaction and implied scarce resources. Also, while I am debt free and do not focus on debt, pay cash and work towards savings or earning money every day, I find many of the other blogs due in fact have a debt focus to recover from the ‘hangover’ and then grow savings.
Part of me wants to help yet on my previous blog and other interactions with people at work, I find many of the comments and attitudes focused on justification for a lifestyle, entitlement for things and a focus on living for today. As such, it is hard to feel sympathy given the many bad choices and decisions.
The worst advice I was given by a person was the following “You will always have a car and house payment” which is part of the debt culture and one for which I am glad I am not a part.
Part of me wants to help yet on my previous blog and other interactions with people at work, I find many of the comments and attitudes focused on justification for a lifestyle, entitlement for things and a focus on living for today. As such, it is hard to feel sympathy given the many bad choices and decisions.
The worst advice I was given by a person was the following “You will always have a car and house payment” which is part of the debt culture and one for which I am glad I am not a part.
Kevin M said,
Amen, brother.
Although that knock on soda cut me deeply.
Although that knock on soda cut me deeply.
Kevin M said,
@Kym – I think part of Jacob’s point was that you don’t need to pay $40k a year to buy that degree, or ticket to a middle-class job, however you look at it.
mjukr said,
“They do not know why they are going to college (To get an degree is not an answer).”
I think that’s sufficient answer for most people who aren’t necessarily driven/skilled enough to do “great” things. So many white collar jobs require that BA/BS just to pass through the HR sieve.
That being said, the smart approach would be to get the basic courses at a community college (~$3000/yr at one near me), then finish the final two years at a less expensive state/commuter school.
The stigma towards the skilled trades industry doesn’t help either. We’ve somehow convinced ourselves that *everyone* needs to have a college degree to be useful. Thus a dearth of skilled tradesmen and an excess of debt-ridden dropouts…
I think that’s sufficient answer for most people who aren’t necessarily driven/skilled enough to do “great” things. So many white collar jobs require that BA/BS just to pass through the HR sieve.
That being said, the smart approach would be to get the basic courses at a community college (~$3000/yr at one near me), then finish the final two years at a less expensive state/commuter school.
The stigma towards the skilled trades industry doesn’t help either. We’ve somehow convinced ourselves that *everyone* needs to have a college degree to be useful. Thus a dearth of skilled tradesmen and an excess of debt-ridden dropouts…
SP said,
Few of the pf blogs I read are focused on debt. This is probably due to the fact that debt isn’t really relevant to me, so I don’t find those ones interesting.
While you are more credit conservative than the average American, you may be less so than the average pf blogger dave ramsey fanatics. Most “normal” pf bloggers agree consumer debt is bad and should always be avoided, including car loans. Most think you should buy a responsibly sized house (if you want a house at all), and most encourage evaluating those student loans to determine if they are worth it (trouble is, few 18 year olds are wise enough to do so).
But the average american thinks car loans are a given, student loans are always a good idea, and you should buy the biggest house you can afford.
The library will not give you a degree when you are done, and most people aren’t disciplined enough to get a college education from one. But I do agree with the general thought that paying $40k a year for a low paying degree is a “luxury” that should be reserved for those with wealth they want to waste. Instead, everyone can have it (by borrowing) and by the time they realize it was a horrid idea, it’s too late.
While you are more credit conservative than the average American, you may be less so than the average pf blogger dave ramsey fanatics. Most “normal” pf bloggers agree consumer debt is bad and should always be avoided, including car loans. Most think you should buy a responsibly sized house (if you want a house at all), and most encourage evaluating those student loans to determine if they are worth it (trouble is, few 18 year olds are wise enough to do so).
But the average american thinks car loans are a given, student loans are always a good idea, and you should buy the biggest house you can afford.
The library will not give you a degree when you are done, and most people aren’t disciplined enough to get a college education from one. But I do agree with the general thought that paying $40k a year for a low paying degree is a “luxury” that should be reserved for those with wealth they want to waste. Instead, everyone can have it (by borrowing) and by the time they realize it was a horrid idea, it’s too late.
Matt said,
I wish I had advice like this before going to university but I’m still not sure if I would have listened. However, I’ve learned my mistakes and should be free of my student loan chain in 6-7 months.
Anyways, I wanted to see if you’ve seen the short film “Money as Debt.” (You can find it on Google Video). The argument they make is that because we are not on the gold standard anymore, banks literally create money and that money = debt. So, if there was no debt, there would be no money.
Have you seen it? I’d be interested in your comments on it. I could follow it half way but will need to watch it again to understand it better.
Anyways, I wanted to see if you’ve seen the short film “Money as Debt.” (You can find it on Google Video). The argument they make is that because we are not on the gold standard anymore, banks literally create money and that money = debt. So, if there was no debt, there would be no money.
Have you seen it? I’d be interested in your comments on it. I could follow it half way but will need to watch it again to understand it better.
Eden said,
I love your hand grenade analogy. I get so tired of the argument that there is nothing ‘bad’ about debt. I get that it can be used wisely, but for the majority of consumers it is clearly a dangerous tool, much as a live hand grenade would be- regardless of the consumers intentions to detonate it or not.
Bubba said,
Sir you are too pragmatic. Krugman will call you out to tell you that we must stimulate our way out with more consumer spending, and this will bring sustained prosperity.
Certainly, we can outsource, tax and stimulate our way back to properity. Hey China, float your currency – perhaps we can float our way back to prosperity as well.
Certainly, we can outsource, tax and stimulate our way back to properity. Hey China, float your currency – perhaps we can float our way back to prosperity as well.
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