By Ilargi on The Automatic Earth.
I’d like to start off the year with another piece on the US housing situation as it looks to be heading into 2011, and its relation to the overall economy. In an interesting quote I read, economist Patrick Newport at IHS Global Insight says: "The economy has to recover for the housing market to recover, not the other way around." Thought I'd throw that in there, because it seems to get lost in translation from time to time.
Talking of quotes, I was going through the material I read the past few days, and I couldn't find a proper way to cut short the quotes and still provide you with the story as I see it, in a way that would be both comprehensive and clarifying. In other words, I think it's the quotes that tell the story, and without them the story is just not there. So this is going to be a long one, and I think the least I can do is to say as little as possible, and just let you absorb the data. And I sincerely hope that after you've gone through them, you’ll see the story I’m talking about.
Many people claim Stoneleigh and I must be crazy, and doomers and all that, for predicting an 80%+ drop in real estate values, but we in turn can't seem to understand why home prices would fall "only" 20% from here, or why they would fall "just" 40%, as Mish suggested for instance. We think that more than 20% is in the cards just because of the bubble coming back to earth; we think 40% is certain because of the bubble bursting, and we think 80%+ will then happen because the bursting bubble will take the entire financial system down with it. Pretty simple really.
But enough about us. Let’s hear some witnesses:
First off, L. Randall Wray, a Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, who's co-operated quite a bit with Bill Black over the past year, throws more oil on the fire of foreclosure fraud, albeit from his own particular angle. Wray's claim is that Mortgage-Backed Securities are not backed by anything, since the MERS electronic securitization facility carried from its inception a number of plainly illegal concepts. Therefore, he says, most if not all US foreclosures are illegal, and all MBS are unsecured debt that the issuers will have to buy back - to the tune of trillions of dollars. Which entirely dooms the main US banks.
According to L. Randall Wray, lenders may have the right to collect debt on certain loans, if they can prove ownership of the loan, but they can't foreclose unless and until they have a clear record (chain) of all transactions the loans went through, through their entire existence. And MERS effectively killed that chain.
Caveat: I am not a US lawyer, and neither is Wray. But I have no reason to doubt that he understands his field, if not the fine details. My take-away is that there is much more to come over the next year in legal challenges and political wrangling. Illegal is illegal, no matter how much power Wall Street has in Washington; laws would have to be changed in order to prevent the chain of events Wray talks about from unfolding.
Please read him with care:
I have argued that MERS, a creation of the mortgage banking industry, has effectively destroyed the institution of private property in America. Ironically, MERS was created to facilitate quick and easy and cheap securitization of mortgages -- what are called mortgage-backed securities. In fact, what it did was to eliminate any backing of the securities by mortgages. Of the total securitized asset universe, something like $7 trillion are (supposedly) backed by residential mortgages.However, MERS helped to delink the securities from the mortgages. At best, they are unsecured debt -- there is no property backing the securities. What this means is that foreclosure is not permitted. As I have said before, it is likely that most or even all foreclosures occurring in the US are illegal seizures of property -- home thefts. We are talking about 100,000 completed home thefts per month, with another 250,000 new foreclosures started to steal homes every month. Projections are that 13 million homes will have been "foreclosed" (read: stolen) by 2012.Worse, from the perspective of the banks, they've got to take back all the fraudulent MBSs, most of which are toxic.[..]
1. A valid "mortgage" requires a ("wet signature") note and a security instrument; these must be kept together, and any subsequent transfer of lien rights to the security instrument must be recorded at the appropriate public office. The mortgage note must be properly indorsed each time the mortgage is transferred. In the era of securitized mortgages this can be a dozen times or more. If ever presented for foreclosure, endorsements should demonstrate a clear chain of title, from origination through to foreclosure; and this should match the records at the public office.
2. MERS intended to provide an electronic registry of all mortgages. By appointing a "vice president" in every financial firm, it believed that all transfers of lien rights among these firms were "in house". Hence it operated on the belief that no subsequent public recording was necessary, and no further endorsement of the mortgage note was necessary for in-house transfers of the payment intangible as it kept a record of transfers of the mortgage. It claimed to be a nominee of these firms (purported to hold the mortgage) but also to be the holder of the mortgages including the "Unidentified Indorsees In Blank" -- mortgages that were never properly endorsed over to purchasers.We know, however, that MERS recommended that mortgage servicers retain notes, so MERS's claim to be the holder rests on its claim that appointed VPs are employees. But these employees are not an agent/employee of the "Unidentified Indorsee In Blank", nor are they paid by MERS or in any way supervised by MERS.
3. This practice is in violation of numerous laws. Property law requires filing sales in the public record. Notes must be affixed (permanently) to the security instrument -- a mortgage without the note has been ruled a "nullity" by the Supreme Court. MERS's recommended business practice (with the servicer retaining the note) would make the mortgages a "nullity". A complete chain of title is required to foreclose on property -- every sale of a mortgage must be endorsed over to the purchaser, and properly recorded. Without this, it is illegal to foreclose on property -- no matter how many payments the homeowner has missed.
4. However, if the notes can be found and if MERS can provide records, it is possible that the mortgages can be made valid ("proved up") for purposes of collecting upon the indebtedness, but foreclosure would not be possible without a valid continuous perfected mortgage showing a chain of title from origination through to the current party trying to enforce the mortgage note. Any break in the chain of endorsements along with any break in the chain of title renders the Power of Sale clause in the security instrument to be a nullity and therefore no party can foreclose on the real property.
5. If the notes cannot be found and a Lost Note Affidavit can not reestablish the indebtedness, then foreclosure is not possible and collecting of the indebtedness is also not possible. Homeowners still can be sued for collection of owed moneys upon a "proved up" note or lost note affidavit but a current perfected lien is required to foreclose.
6. However since the mortgage-backed securities are governed by PSAs (pooling and service agreements), the practices above make the securities unsecured debt and there is no solution. The securities are no good. (This would be a Representation & Warrant violation as the MBSs stated that a secured indebtedness was to be purchased, but since the Trustees of the securitization would not have the notes, the securities cannot be "secured".)What does all this mean? In plain simple language, the banks are royally screwed. They cannot foreclose on the properties. Holders of the "mortgage-backed" securities can turn them back to the banks because they are actually unsecured debt. In previous pieces I have also explained why MERS's recommended practice also violates US tax code -- so back taxes are owed. And we know that the mortgages stuffed into the securities did not meet the "reps" of the PSAs.So, in short, banks have got to take the whole lot of toxic waste securities back. Trillions of dollars worth. The banks are toast. There is no cooking of the books that will turn this blackened toast back to bread.
Ilargi: Next, Ron Robins at Investing for the Soul argues that credit in the US is vanishing. This is a point that continues to be a hard one for most people. Why would credit disappear? After all, it’s been there all their lives. The reality, however, is that the credit system we've known until here has already gone. What’s left is the Treasury and the Federal Reserve lending you your own money, for which you’ll be charged twice: first, through Wall Street, which gets your money at 0.0078% and lends it back to you at some 5% for mortgages and 29-odd% for credit cards, and second, when the government pays back the Federal Reserve for "offering" you your own money this way, with interest.
Can't win this game, no matter what:
If US consumers believe it difficult to borrow now, just wait! In the next few years credit conditions are likely to go back seventy years when private debt was difficult to obtain. Most Americans intuitively believe there is too much debt at every level of society. But the economic and political vested interests do not want them worried about that. They want to give them credit to infinity to keep this economic mess from imploding. The US Federal Reserve’s new round of quantitative easing (QE2) is clear evidence of that. However, Americans are right about their inordinate debt load, and future economic conditions are likely to create a severe debt scarcity.The principal reasons for the coming debt scarcity are that ‘debt saturation’—where total income cannot support total debt—has arrived, say some analysts; also, the growing understanding that adding new debt may not increase GDP—it could decrease it; and that the banks and financial system are a train wreck in waiting, eventually being forced to mark their assets to market, thus creating for them massive asset write-downs and strangling their lending ability.On the subject of consumption, the renowned economist David Rosenberg in The Globe & Mail on August 16 stated that "U.S. household debt-income ratio peaked in the first quarter of 2008 at 136 per cent. The ratio currently sits at 126 per cent, but the pre-2001 norm was 70 per cent. To get down to this normalized ratio again, debt would have to be reduced by about $6-trillion. So far, nearly $600-billion of bad household debt has been destroyed." This data reaffirms Americans growing aversion to debt, that debt has become too onerous, and is suggestive of debt saturation.Replacing declining consumer debt is the exponential growth of US government debt. For 2009 and 2010, the combined US government’s fiscal deficits required or require borrowing an extra $2.7 trillion or so. Yet with all that spending—combined with about $2 trillion of ‘money printing’ from the US Federal Reserve (the Fed)—it created only around $1 trillion in increased economic growth! [..]A further, major reason for the coming debt scarcity will be the tremendously impaired financial condition of the banks. The values assigned to many bank assets are fictional according to numerous experts. QE2 is about many things but one of them is aimed at delaying the potential for implosion of the banking system. In 2009, the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) caved in to government and banking industry lobbyists to allow many bank assets to be ‘marked to fantasy’ and not ‘marked to market.’This viewpoint is best expressed by highly respected Associate Professor William Black (and formerly a senior regulator who nailed the banks during the savings and loan debacle) and Professor L. Randall Wray, who wrote an article on October 22 in The Huffington Post, entitled, "Foreclose on the Foreclosure Fraudsters, Part 1: Put Bank of America in Receivership."They wrote that, "FASB's new rules allowed the banks (and the Fed, which has taken over a trillion dollars in toxic mortgages as wholly inadequate collateral) to refuse to recognize hundreds of billions of dollars of losses. This accounting scam produces enormous fictional ‘income’ and ‘capital’ at the banks."
Ilargi: Then, Steven Hansen of Econintersect would like to correct a few numbers and ideas emanating from the National Association of Realtors, which managed to see positive trends recently - as it always seems to do -:
The above graph shows the YoY trend lines between December 2008, December 2009, and Econintersect’s projected 326,000 existing home sales for December. Using this methodology, last month Econintersect had projected November existing home sales at 360,000 – and the actual November existing home sales were 353,000.In December 2009, existing home sales were 413,000 – and this December 2010 projected home sales of 326,000 represents a decline of 21% YoY.There is no truth that there is an “improvement” or “gradual recovery” of any kind underway in existing home sales. This absence of buyers will only tend to put downward pressure on home prices. The NAR manipulation of the data is based on no more than wishful thinking.
Ilargi: Let’s move on to Amy Lee for the Huffington Post, who links unemployment, housing (through Case/Shiller) and consumer spending. Important, even though, honestly, everyone should have grasped this by now:
"If home prices continue on this pace down, I think the economy has serious reasons to worry," Yale economist Robert J. Shiller -- and co-creator of the Case-Shiller Index -- told the Wall Street Journal in a recent interview. Bad news in the housing market could ripple through to consumer spending, which has recently shown heartening gains this holiday season. Consumer spending makes up about 70 percent of the economy."Our concern on the double-dip is the consumer and the fate of the consumer," said Allen Sinai, chief economist at Decision Economics, Inc. "I think the lack of stable prices is a negative consumer fundamental for spending." With unemployment mired at 9.8 percent, the housing market is hinged upon the job market. "The economy has to recover for the housing market to recover, not the other way around," said Patrick Newport, an economist with IHS Global Insight.Homes remain a major part of many Americans' wealth -- households held $6.4 trillion of home equity at the end of the third quarter, according to a Federal Reserve report. "It's unfortunate because a lot of families have all their wealth in their house, all their savings," said Sinai. "Household spending in general is hurt. There's a restraint on consumer spending."
Ilargi: On to the heavy hitters. Peter Schiff writes in the Wall Street Journal that home prices are likely to break through trendlines on the downside, even as these already spell a 20%+ drop in prices. And he does it well. The only thing I don't agree with is that the drop would halt there. Really, what is there to stop prices from falling further once we get to that point? Can anyone explain? You need to understand what impact a 20%+ drop in home prices would have on the financial system, the banks, and on society as a whole. The amount of underwater homes would soar, the amount of owner equity would plunge. Take it from there.
Most economists concede that a lasting general recovery is unlikely without a recovery in the housing market. A marked increase in defaults and foreclosures from today's already elevated levels could produce losses that overwhelm banks and trigger another, deeper financial crisis. Study after study has shown that defaults go up when falling prices put mortgage holders "underwater." As a result, the trajectory of home prices has tremendous economic significance.Earlier this year market observers breathed easier when national prices stabilized. But the "robo-signing"-induced slowdown in the foreclosure market, the recent upward spike in home mortgage rates, and third quarter 2010 declines in the Standard & Poor's Case–Shiller home-price index—including very bad October numbers reported this week—have sparked concerns that a "double dip" in home prices is probable. A longer-term view of home price trends should sharply magnify this fear.Even those economists worried about renewed price dips would be unlikely to believe that the vicious contractions of 2007 and 2008 (where prices fell about 30% nationally in just two years) could return. But they underestimate how distorted the market had become and how little it has since normalized.
By all accounts, the home price boom that began in January 1998, when the previous 1989 peak was finally surpassed, and topped out in June 2006 was extraordinary. The 173% gain in the Case-Shiller 10-City Index (the only monthly data metric that predates the year 2000) in those nine years averaged an eye-popping 19.2% per year. As we know now, those gains had very little to do with market fundamentals, and everything to do with distortionary government policies that set off a national mania for real-estate wealth and a torrent of temporarily easy credit.If we assume the bubble was artificial, we can instead imagine that home prices should have followed a more traditional path during that time. In stock-market terms, prices should have followed a trend line. When you do these extrapolations (see lower line in the nearby chart), a sobering picture emerges.In his book "Irrational Exuberance," Yale economist Robert Shiller (co-creator of the Case-Shiller indices along with economists Karl Case and Allan Weiss), determined that in the 100 years between 1900 and 2000, home prices in the U.S. increased an average 3.35% per year, just a tad above the average rate of inflation. This period includes the Great Depression when home prices sank significantly, but it also includes the frothy postwar years of the 1950s and '60s, as well as the strong market of the early-to-mid 1980s, and the surge in the late '90s.In January 1998 the 10-City Index was at 82.7. If home prices had followed the 3.35% annual 100 year trend line, then the index would have arrived at 126.7 in October 2010. This week, Case-Shiller announced that figure to be 159.0. This would suggest that the index would need to decline an additional 20.3% from current levels just to get back to the trend line.How has the market found the strength to stop its descent? No one is making the case that fundamentals have improved. Instead, there is widespread agreement that government intervention stopped the free fall. The home buyer's tax credit, record low interest rates, government mortgage-assistance programs, and the increased presence of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration in the mortgage-buying business have, for now, put something of a floor under house prices. Without these artificial props, prices would have likely continued to fall.Where would prices go if these props were removed? Given the current conditions in the real-estate market, with bloated inventories, 9.8% unemployment, a dysfunctional mortgage industry and shattered illusions of real-estate riches, does it makes sense that prices should simply fall back to the trend line? I would argue that they should overshoot on the downside.With a bleak economic prospect stretching far out into the future, I feel that a 10% dip below the 100-year trend line is a reasonable expectation within the next five years, particularly if mortgage rates rise to more typical levels of 6%. That would put the index at 114.02, or prices 28.3% below where we are now. Even a 5% dip would put us at 120.36, or 24.32% below current prices. If rates stay low, price dips may be less severe, but inflation will be higher.From my perspective, homes are still overvalued not just because of these long-term price trends, but from a sober analysis of the current economy. The country is overly indebted, savings-depleted and underemployed. Without government guarantees no private lenders would be active in the mortgage market, and without ridiculously low interest rates from the Federal Reserve any available credit would cost home buyers much more. These are not conditions that inspire confidence for a recovery in prices.In trying to maintain artificial prices, government policies are keeping new buyers from entering the market, exposing taxpayers to untold trillions in liabilities and delaying a real recovery. We should recognize this reality and not pin our hopes on a return to price normalcy that never was that normal to begin with.
Ilargi: Gary Shilling talks about the same trendlines Peter Schiff addresses, and moreover adds the same notion we at The Automatic Earth have been talking about all along (as does Schiff): When prices come off a huge high, they’ll first fall to their trendline, and then fall below it. Any physicist can tell you how it (i.e. oscillation) works, but in economics that is not that easy, apparently. Forever up, for some reason, is taken seriously.
This huge and growing surplus inventory of houses will probably depress prices considerably from here, perhaps another 20% over the next several years. That would bring the total decline from the first quarter 2006 peak to 42%. This may sound like a lot, but it would return single-family house prices, corrected for general inflation and also for the tendency of houses to increase in size over time, back to the flat trend that has held since 1890.We are strong believers in reversions to the mean, especially when it has held for over a century and through so many huge changes in the economy in those years—two world wars and the 1930s Depression, the leap in government regulation and involvement in the economy, the economic transformation from an agricultural base to manufacturing and then to services, the post- World War II population shift from cities to suburbs, the western and southern transfer of population and economic strength, the movement from renting to homeownership and the accompanying spreading of mortgage financing, etc.Furthermore, our forecast of another 20% fall in house prices may be conservative. Prices may well end up back on their long- term trendline, but fall below in the meanwhile. Just as they way overshot the trend on the way up, they may do so on the way down, as is often the case in cycles. Furthermore, another big house price decline will spike delinquencies and foreclosures leading to more REO sales by lenders, which will further depress prices. Our analysis indicates that a further 20% drop in prices will push the number of homeowners who are under water from 23% to 40%, resulting in more strategic defaults, more REO, etc.At that point, the remaining home equity of those with mortgages would be wiped out on average. That, in turn, would impair already-depressed consumer confidence and their willingness and ability to spend, to say nothing of residential construction. In California, epicenter of the housing boom-bust, construction jobs dropped 43% from June 2006 to June of this year, compared to a 28% decline nationwide, and the unemployment rate in the Golden State jumped to 12.3% in June, far above the 9.5% rate nationally.
Ilargi: And finally, foreclosures are going nowhere but up. Suzanne Kapner in Financial Times has this:
US mortgage foreclosures jumped in the third quarter as fewer borrowers qualified for loan modifications that would have reduced their monthly payments, bank regulators have said. The rise in repossessions and decline in loan modifications are further signs that problems in the US housing market are persisting, in spite of forecasts by some analysts of a recovery before the year-end.The number of homes entering foreclosure rose 31 per cent compared with the second quarter and 3.7 per cent compared with the year-earlier period, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision said. These newly foreclosed homes will add to a growing backlog of 1.2m properties already in some stage of repossession, a 4.5 per cent increase over the second quarter and 10 per cent more than the previous year.As of the end of the third quarter, 187,000 homes completed the foreclosure process, a 14.7 per cent increase over the second quarter and a 57.5 per cent jump from the same period a year ago. As these properties come on the market, they are expected to depress home prices by between 5 per cent and 10 per cent over the next year, economists said.
Ilargi: So what can I say after all that? How about: are there any questions? Is the picture still not clear?
The entire US housing system, lenders, builders, borrowers, the whole thing, is in grave danger, and that means both the financial system and the economy at large are as well. We're looking at not just one or two, but a whole series of reinforcing feedback loops. Which neither Obama nor Geithner nor Bernanke have any control over, other than fleetingly and temporarily.
And that will be the story of 2011.
Well, that and, of course, the euro crumbling, Japan deflating, China inflating, cities, counties and states defaulting, violent street protests, millions more Americans sinking into abject poverty, misery and hardship, and so on.
Thing is, you can’t have a 60+% homeownership rate, facing more mayhem after home prices already fell 30%, and then expect your society to keep humming along, or even recover. 2010 has been all about delay of execution. In 2011 we'll get to choose our last supper.
Have a great year, but please do be careful out there. And if you're thinking of getting a mortgage loan: don't. Just don't.
Share:
Advertisement:
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/2011-us-housing-crash-2011-1?source=patrick.net#yui-main#ixzz1A48ALCxo
The congress with the new tea bagger members is crazy enough to do something very stupid.
I'm ambivalent the blow-up is going to happen sooner or later, if the adults come into the room they can do a slow burn that does the least damage. If the temper tantrum tea baggers blow up, well they can cause a big sudden boom.
That boom you heard was the idiot liberal heads exploding after the Democrats got shellacked in November.
Politics are just a sideshow, and you've bought into it. Both parties are wholly owned subsidiaries of Wall St., Inc. The more we trust capitalism to clean out the weak sisters, and the less welfare we give the wealthy, the better the economic outlook will be over the long term for everyone.
The article could be correct in its assertion, frankly housing has to return to its mean. What happens to the mortgage market when there is no more .gov money to keep fannie and freddie afloat
;-)
Whether those entities should be propping up the mortgage market is a reasonable debate to be held, not raising the debt ceiling ensures that debate doesn't even happen because after all you have two wars to finance.
News at 11.
I see the GOP is already making the mistake that Pelosi made that the calls for sanity by the populace are actually an endorsement of an insane ideology.
Despite the Tea Party Express agenda of repackaged religious intolerance, etc. I agree that the government should not take over the entire economy and choose winners and losers. Let the free market take care of that. Both parties have to make choices about whether they want to fund Medicare and the two wars or keep throwing good money after bad in the FIRE sector.
The extreme leftists (Sanders, Kucinich, etc) and the numerous right wingers in the TPE are the only ones saying to let it crash. It's the vast majority in the middle that have been bought by the banksters.
The debt ceiling debate will be great theatre. I fully suspect if the GOP gets anywhere close to pulling the trigger on that one, they will get a few phone calls from their sponsors.
That's exactly the way Helicopter Ben wants it: funnel all of our savings into the marketplace or to the banks by keeping people in overpriced houses and "protecting" them from the ramifications of their own bad decisions. I agree with the article that getting a mortgage right now is a big mistake, and I fervently hope the government gets out of the real estate subsidy business entirely and puts the money into more productive ventures.
If Congress can at least pass legislation to audit the Fed while Obama stands down, that'll be the biggest legislative accomplishment of 2011 Americans can realistically hope for.
What you refer to as a 'blow up' is actually shut down.
And it appears that you may have a problem with Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.
No worries Jake. We are on it, two if by sea!
Use need a diploma to read 'em.
I'll just stick with the headline, and the fact that a double dip is guaranteed unless Obama breaks down the walls along the border and gives all the Mexicans a job paying 60K a year and a guaranteed housing loan. It's the only thing that will save the sector and I wouldn't put it past Barrack Cash4Clunkers Obama at this point.
Quoting fringe doomsayers on this site cheapens the decent content. Please keep to fact based economic reporting and away from bloggers who make their living via paypal donations from permadoom fringe fanatics.
Stoneleigh
Their author, Stoneleigh was so scared of an imminent financial collapse that in the year 2000 she sold everything and emmigrated from the UK to a rural homestead in Canada.
Meanwhile, the earth still spins...
Stoneleigh
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703865004575648900250047766.html
I worry that the no-pay rebellion will not be restricted to those who owe on mortgages, but will soon include renters. We are well into the age of counerparty default. Thanks to the Wall Street banks, moral hazard is a thing of the past. Does anyone really believe that the US is going to pay its debts to China and Japan at anywhere near face value?
I have no idea who Bas van Berkel is, but I know I'm not him.
It's easy and cheap to call people like us fringe doomsayers, but yes, we've been predicting US economic doom for years. And boy, have we ever been right. More so by the minute. Here's a mental exercise for you: how much poorer do you think the average American has become since Lehman fell and the bail-outs started? Hint: think six figures.
Lastly, since the vast majority of data in this particular post comes from the Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, Business Insider and Benzinga, I must wonder what you would consider "fact based economic reporting".
Ilargi
You hold out your hat after each call claiming you've saved your readers "millions if not billions" asking folks to send you money via Paypal.
Whatever. If this is what BI has become I'll go elsewhere. Your dribble is not worth even 30 seconds of anyone's attention.
Investment advice is not our angle. It's trying to help people not to lose all they have. Which will be much harder than most realize. Going forward, the answer to both your questions is cash.
JoJo: Cash? How about which currency/currencies? What currency portfolio balance do you recommend? Why? What are data and tends for each currency? What is the economic outlook for the regions whose currencies you recommend?
Ilargi: I can't be bothered to define "cash". Go away.
JoJo: This is Business Insider, not the little doomer cheerleading band who posts on your blog site. If you are predicting "doom" we smell opportunity. State the facts and make your case.
Ilargi: Go away. I don't have to answer with facts. I am a *reeeally* smart guy. You are a little pinhead.
JoJo; chuckle...
The wealthy will be able to play the currency game for longer than most, but this is going to get riskier over time. We expect the global floating currency regime to go haywire over the next couple of years, with multiple failed attempts at currency pegs and beggar-thy-neighbour competitive devaluations. This should wreak havoc in the derivatives market, especially considering that interest rate volatility is also likely to increase markedly.
For those still minded to play the game for the time being, we expect the US dollar to appreciate significantly on a combination of dollar-denominated debt deflation and a knee-jerk flight to safety into the reserve currency once the markets turn and credit contraction begins again in earnest. The euro should fall sharply, and the single currency project could well come apart at the seams. Capital flight from Europe on sovereign debt default risk (which should emerge as a full-blown crisis in the not too distant future) should help to prop up the US for a period of time.
Stoneleigh
"The wealthy will be able to play the currency game for longer than most"
If you recommend staying in whatever local currency is available then you are telling everyone to play the currency game. Your strategy of "whatever is local" seems banal and probably dangerous depending on the region.
---------------------
Here's a counterpoint following some of what you have said that is more in line with what folks may be used to here;
20% of your portfolio in the UUP ETF (USD bull ETF)
10% in the EUO ETF (ultra short Euro)
20% in Blackrock Gold Mining A2 funds
20% in Blackrock Energy
20% in physical gold and silver
10% in local currency in interest bearing account
Sell UUP and EUO when the USD/EUR rate is at parity and buy URR and HDD.
Ilargi has stated his case well, with references and charts. You don't agree, fine!
So you are looking for ways to "thrive" while the middle class folks lives are being tossed to the winds of corruption and you country is going the way of all states who have evolved into this kind of complex chaos. Are you representative of BI? I should hope not.
Reminds me of some old Beatle lyrics...
"JOJO left his home in Tucson Arizona, for some California grass."
For ordinary people living in the US (ie not playing the currency game), I would hold dollars until prices of hard assets fall far enough for people to be able to purchase them with no debt. Over time we should see the (nominal) prices of hard assets fall and the risks to holding currency rise (ie potential currency reissue) rise. The point at which people would need to transition from holding cash to holding hard assets would depend on their own situation.
Risks to cash are indeed locationally dependent, which may force some people to take currency risk as the least worst option. The eurozone comes to mind in this context, especially for the countries of the periphery. Holding a reasonable reserve of cash for the short term would still be necessary however.
IMO financial assets will be VERY risky for a very long time. Several years down the line, when the received wisdom is that stocks only ever go down, and dividends are setting records as a result, then buying would make sense.
I wouldn't touch mining stocks with a barge pole. Physical gold and silver make a good insurance policy, if you can hold on to them for the long term and would not be forced to sell them into the major buyers' market that I think is coming in the next few years. Those who would be able to hold for the long term would be those who already hold no debt, hold enough cash and have some control over the esentials of their own existence as a hedge against severe economic disruption. Those not in that position could be forced to sell at the worst possible time. The spot prices for metals are IMO in blow-off territory right now, and I wouldn't buy at these prices unless very wealthy indeed.
Energy should be a good long term bet, but I am expecting a great deal of volatility over the next few years, so timing will be everything. My current view is that we are approaching a commodity top, although that may trail a stock market top, perhaps by a few months, as it did in 2007/2008. Momentum chasing could bump up energy prices for a while, as it did in 2008, but the follow-on would be crashing prices as speculation goes into reverse (again as in 2008). Price support should be further undercut by falling demad during a depression, but falling prices should then impact on investment, setting up a supply crunch down the line. A resource grab would make this worse.
I wouldn't hold more than a small amount of currency in a bank account. FDIC insurance wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on in a systemic banking crisis. Nominal interest rates are low anyway - not nearly enough to justify the risk. Real interst rates will be much higher in a deflation, but that does not hinge on keeping the money in the bank. Rather it happens as a result of increasing purchasing power of remaining physical cash in a credit contraction.
Stoneleigh
"Long equities, long commodities until equities reverse trend then short equities until commodities reverse trend then short commodities. Cash under the mattress. Maybe gold but only if mattress is full. Like the USD, don't like the Euro for 12 months. Long term energy bullish but see short term climb then drop-off so short term long then short term short then long again."
Stoneleigh
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5917
Yep. By my estimation, Illargi has "correctly" predicted 58 of the last 2 downturns...
Stoneleigh
Your outlook hasnt changed one bit. If it has been spectacularly wrong, again, and again, and again, why should anyone listen to you anymore and assume "this time, she will be right"?
My longer term outlook has not changed because the big picture not changed. This rally is short term noise. It doesn't change the fact that we are living through an unprecedented credit bubble that is destined to implode messily. We would rather not be standing in the way when it does, and are trying to help other people to keep their distance as well.
We do not write with a view to helping people wring every last ounce of profit out of a collapsing system. We are trying to help ordinary people to keep what they have worked all their lives for, much of which is very much in harm's way. He who loses the least in a deflation is the winner.
Stoneleigh
And how long is that? Every few months you say (in sum) "things are peaking in the next few months". A few months later, after your original prediction fails, you again say (in sum) "everything is peaking in the next few months". You continue this, over and over, til the next thing you know, 10 years have gone by, your predictions are no closer to happening, and you are now 10 years closer to death.
Im sure you are going to respond along the lines of "certainly within the next 5 years". And yet, if and when that fails, I am certain you will then (in 2015) say "certainly within the next 5 years". At what point, if ever, do you re-evaluate your thesis? Is there ever a "drop dead" date where you say, "if deflation isnt happening by X, then I must be wrong"?
We refuse to pander to the mood of the investing herd, which is almost always wrong by definition. Right now that mood is not in accordance with our message of extreme caution and preparation for deflation, hence the ridicule we occasionally see from momentum-chasing trend-followers.
Following a trend (ie merely extrapolating from the recent past) is easy to do and easy to rationalize to oneself. After all, if you're doing and saying what everyone else is doing and saying, then who will blame you if you turn out to have been wrong (along with everyone else)? Feel free to put your foot hard down on the gas while looking only in the rearview mirror, but don't expect the results to be pretty.
It's much harder to be in the business of anticipating trend changes, when you end up isolated at all major turning points. However, that's the only game that really matters. We look for the big picture, and for changes at all degrees of trend simultaneously. We have been successful enough at doing this that we have indeed saved our readers enormous amounts of money. If they resist the siren song of the market and preserve capital as liquidity, as we suggest, they will save a lot more in the coming years.
Stoneleigh
'm not sure if you follow American football, but there is a strategy teams use when they are ahead in the last quarter of the game. It is called the "prevent defense". Instead of concentrating on scoring more, the team concentrates on holding its lead by playing a sagging defense. Many teams, that were ahead in that last quarter, have lost games using the prevent defense.
Far too many people are addicted to the leverage game and cannot stop playing, even if they understand what is coming. They are likely to get trampled in a rush for the exits.
Stoneleigh
http://www.residentialmarketingblog.com/
Housing inventory is reaching for the sky, and that's before much investment real esate has been dumped. Neg Am ARMs will continue to rest until 2012, forcing many more foreclosures among prime borrowers. We haven't even seen the collapse in commercial real estate yet, but it's coming, and regional banks are up to their eyeballs in it.
Population growth is irrelevant if the population has no access to credit and no stable income, which is definitely on the cards in a deflation. Deflation and depression are mutually reinforcing, hence the combination should be persistent. The scale of the aftermath is roughly proportionate to the scale of the excesses that preceded it, which in this case means a more significant depression than the 1930s.
Stoneleigh
The Main Street USA economy is a disaster, and it is getting worse. U6 unemployment is not falling, and that number doesn't take in account many of the chronically unemployed. One out of four children in this country are on the SNAP program. Without that Government aid, they would starve or there would be Great Depression bread lines again. One out of seven Americans is living at or below the poverty level. This is not a country on the mend. It is a country where the wealthiest 400 people have as many assets as the bottom 150 million. Including Social Security and Medicare liabilities, according to successful hedge fund genius, Eric Sprott,, the US has an aggregate debt that exceeds $130 trillion
The booming Wall Street casino has an inverse relationship to the plunging US Main Street economy, and the Shanghai market plunged while the Main Street China economy boomed. Stock markets do not serve as a measure of a country's economy.
Your prognosis on housing is terribly flawed. There are $10 trillion in mortgages out there, and they are with the GSEs, HUD, the Fed and mark-to-Madoff, Wall Street level 2 and 3 asset dumps. We may have millions of people living in homes secured by zombie mortgages.
Most of all, other than debt expanding Government jobs, there is no engine for jobs in the US. The situation will get uglier when the waves of of municipal layoffs start crashing on the shore. 40 US States are in some state of insolvency.
Still, those who are fleet afoot, can still make money. One can go short or long, or both.
California's population has been shooting up for decades, but it is now full of people who make no money and pay no taxes. In fact, they're overwhelmingly net tax consumers. In the limit, a large population of poor people gives you India, where there are rivers of sh_t that people drink out of and no toilets or running water. Places in the Central Valley of California are starting to look like that. So if you think millions living in dollar-a-day poverty are going to support home prices in the most bubblicious places (like CA), you need your head examined.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=175706
Karl Denninger has written loads of well researched articles on all these topics for a 'long time'. It seems there's not much doing with US law enforcement (http://market-ticker.org). Way too many politicians and vested interests talking about administrative errors and process problems when the whole thing has been - apparently - illegal. Google Foreclosuregate. Note: There is a reference in there somewhere to a paper by US Professor of law. If you have no law, or are choosing to ignore it, what sort of society do you have? This is not new news.
A relatively recent one from Henry Blodget with other references http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henry-blodget/heres-what-foreclosure-ga_b_761321.html
They have and will continue to change them to avoid any negative facts!
The Federal Reserve can and has printed however much fiat money needed to create the illusion that all is solved and controllable.
Just like 2008 proved, the financial geniuses will continue to dance as long as the music keeps playing.
The Enron economy will continue until it can no longer !
MERSCORP CEO R. K. Arnold recently testified before Congress that MERS currently has about 31 million active mortgages in its registry database (the 62 million number often thrown around is apparently a cumulative historical total).
At an average principal balance of $200,000, 31 million x $200,000 = $6.2 trillion.
This number is roughly equal to the combined total assets (not equity, which is a much smaller number) of the big four commercial banks, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Wells Fargo.
You must be a financial wizard that can play the stock market both ways.
Therefore, you must be assimilating the commentators comments into your investment model.
Previous commentators have done a great job of outlining the facts.
Those facts support a rebalancing of your model.
A greater weighing is needed for those events that have been ignored.
They should be reclassified to probable with 50% probability.
I'll see you at the second hand store and the flee market. Bring enough of that cash to be able to trade for your needs.
jal
Went long silver in August 2010. Still long silver, energy, fertilizers, ag commodities, and emerging markets (mainly SA & smaller Asian markets - none of the BRIC however). Am anticipating an oil spike and then severe retrench so in that I do agree with Nicole Foss (Stoneleigh).
Ilargi hasn't made a solid call since I've read him - and that's back to 2006 or so. I'll take Laffert's track record over Ilargi's any day of the week.
You do make good points: adjust your point-of-view, incorporate new information, be humble, and know you can never, ever predict anything with more than a slight margin of advantage. Anyone who can predict better than 60% should be playing in the big leagues. If they are not, there is probably something fishy there.
I was not 10 years too early. I moved exactly when I meant to and I would do the same again, even with hindsight. I wanted to live on a farm and chose to do so. I was not running away from anything, but embracing a different and more fulfilling life. It has been a tremendous learning experience for all of us, and we are all much better off (financially and otherwise) than we would have been had we stayed in England.
Stoneleigh
Do you know why that is? Thats because you dont have your henchemen, Illargi, acting as the guardian at the gate, deleting any and all comments that do not comport with your thesis of deflationary doom.
This is the real world, with real comments, not just a bunch of permadoomers who all look to their queen bee Stoneleigh, and nod their heads in agreement. If you cant hack it, go back to your fantasy site where Illargi will make sure that nothing gets through that causes you any anguish.
Sorry, but Ive got a real bone to pick with you. My sister is an adherent to your cult of personality, and posts regularly to your site. She is so obsessed with preparing and warning everyone she knows about the upcoming deflationary collapse, that she has lost her job and is on the verge of destroying her marriage.
Thankfully, she is finally having doubts as its now 2011 and was certain that 2010 was the year it all went up in smoke. She is slowly but surely realizing you are the emperor with no clothes, and I cant wait til I get she snaps out of this completely.
Ive seen your posts. You are a brilliant speaker and writer. However, you have no idea how much you affect lives of some of the impressionable people out there who see you as some sort of prophet. You claim to be saving lives by warning people to prepare for the upcoming collapse - understand that you are influential in destroying lives too.
What part of my analysis do you disagree with? If you think I am wrong you must have some idea why. Timing is a minor part of what we do. The big picture is far more important, and I stand by my analysis of that.
I do not aspire to any kind of cult of personality. Nor do I profit more than minimally from what I do in anything like the way most finance writers do. I do what I do as a public service, almost all of it for free. It is based on a monumental amount of reading, experience and thought.
Stoneleigh
Like hell you do. I have made comments, very similar to this one above, warning others not to fall prey to what you say, and every time, it is deleted out of hand. You may think you see everything, but you dont. Illargi makes sure of that. In fact, I cant tell you how liberating it is to see you have to deal with scathing criticism like others have posted here.
"What part of my analysis do you disagree with?"
The results. Its 2011, the dow is not 1,000, commodities have not crashed, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
"I do not aspire to any kind of cult of personality"
I think I believe you on that. I really do honestly believe that you believe everything you say...and you do believe that you are helping people. The problem is, you have convincingly told my sister that a metaphorical flood of biblical proportions is coming. She is doing what she can to prepare, and wants us, her family to do the same.
Problem is, when it comes to calls like this, timing is precious, absolutely precious as your flock will tell their (largely unbelieving) family members to prepare as well. If you do not have your timing down, (as you clearly do not), how can you not expect there to be yelling, traded accusations over who is delusional, etc? Again, you are destroying people in ways you cannot imagine.
Stoneleigh, I say again, as I have had deleted on your site, over and over and over again,
At what point, if ever, do you re-evaluate your thesis? Is there ever a "drop dead" date where you say, "if deflation isnt happening by X, then I must be wrong"?
The hardest decisions to make are the ones most likely to be right. They are hard because they conflict with a collective position. The more invested a society is in that received wisdom, the more difficult it is to go against it. As a society, we are all-in with our ponzi finance system. There is no Plan B. Ponzi finance always ends the same way. It is only a matter of time. As always, a few will cash out and the rest will lose their shirts. I am trying to make sure as many ordinary people as possible avoid being among the victims.
I have spent several years of my life explaining how things work, based on painstaking research which I know very few others have undertaken to anything like the same extent. I say again, what part of my fundamental analysis do you disagree with? Are you familiar with it? Estimates of timing are a separate matter. My arguments do not stand or fall on timing.
I have never shied away from honest and respectful discussion. I do refuse to enagage in discussion with people who are simply nasty or are twisting my words or being deliberately dishonest.
Stoneleigh
Stoneleigh - I do think that timing matters - maybe not for investment, but for life. I could care less about investment. However, the manner and urgency with which I prepare for a crisis depends on when that crisis begins and for how long it lasts. If a deflationary depression is going to happen in the next year and last for five I will have to take a different set of actions than if it is going to happen sometime in the next ten years and last for a decade. I do think you're right on the fundamentals, but John is right that timing does matter.
John - I do think Stoneleigh has been too dismissive of the importance of timing, but the sort of preparations she advocates aren't really the sort that hurt a person to do - getting out of debt, becoming more self-sufficient, etc. are all good things regardless of what happens long term. But how one goes about these things depends upon Stoneleigh giving better suggestions on timing, and frankly I've been having more and more doubts as to whether her forecasts will turn out to be right anytime soon (i.e. anytime in the next 2-3 years) since she gives virtually no evidence for the timing of her forecasts (only for the outcomes).
Yes they do stand or fall on timing you stupid dipshit!!! Dont you understand, without timing, you have NOTHING!!! Look we all know the whole thing is a ponzi scheme, built on confidence - if that confidence in TPTB goes away, the whole thing collapses - WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!
What we do not know is WHEN it collapses, and you have no evidence for why it has to be NOW!!! The confidence game has been going on for over 200 years, with kicking the can an essential part thereof since 1815. Why does it all come crashing down now such that we have to prepare now???
The answer is, you dont know if it will come down now, 5 years from now, or even 25 years after every person on the face of this planet is dead and buried. Thus, without timing, you have nothing.
God himself could come down from heaven and tell us via his omnipotence, that the United States WILL experience a severe deflationary depression in the year 2056. What the hell does that have to do with us "preparing" in the year 2011.
Look - I have been chasing you, haranging you on this issue for years. (I too am banned from TAE, and its not always because I am as rude as I am being now.) Its frustrating because its the elephant in the room you refuse to adress at all costs TIMING MATTERS YOU IDIOT!!!
Sadly, you never will adress the timing issue, your achilees heel for which you have no answer. Mark my words, this issue will haunt you til the day you die.
"... just enough on the plus side to be comfortable...plus...."
I can understand ... you have more to lose than most since things keep getting worst AND you are aware.
The cost of keeping yourself isolated from the impoverished, (the new disgruntled class), is going to strain your resources unless you are part of the very wealthy.
Good luck with your plans.
jal
And how long is that? Every few months you say (in sum) "things are peaking in the next few months". A few months later, after your original prediction fails, you again say (in sum) "everything is peaking in the next few months". You continue this, over and over, til the next thing you know, 10 years have gone by, your predictions are no closer to happening, and you are now 10 years closer to death.
Im sure you are going to respond along the lines of "certainly within the next 5 years". And yet, if and when that fails, I am certain you will then (in 2015) say "certainly within the next 5 years". At what point, if ever, do you re-evaluate your thesis? Is there ever a "drop dead" date where you say, "if deflation isnt happening by X, then I must be wrong"?
However, it would appear obvious that all bets are off if both parts of the MERS issue are actually resolved.
One part sends billions back to the Counties for fees and penalties for not paying them. The other part re-constructs the chain of title - which would seem to suggest that nearly all of the "securitized" mortgages would suddenly suffer a loss of "security."
This would, no doubt, get the attention of the holders of all of those suddenly unsecured "securities." What would happen then?
Their shtick is old, and clear as a glass to anyone who’s been alive more than a couple of decades. Define the conversation by ignoring anything that disagrees with their thesis, or if it can’t be ignored it is shouted down or mocked. Leven everything with dread; the end IS coming, and only by listening to us will you and yours be safe. Create… nothing; simply recycle the thoughts and words of others, and take credit for “analysis”. Give advice… but deny that they advise you to DO anything, and definitely don’t give any facts about their OWN financial positions. Ask for money, but it’s only a pittance, and will only help us “spread the word.” And most of all keep doing it – right, wrong, indifferent, doesn’t matter, because The Word is eternal, er, I mean, it’s better to be early... or something.
LOL. I can imagine their business plan: it was either Automatic Earth or a religious broadcast. And the airwaves are just so crowded with evangelists that the choice was obvious!
The one thing i don`t get from this particular thread is , why are people insistent on timing?
No one can predict with accuracy in regards to when.
Why are you even looking for that in someone else?
Read the damn post, learn what you can, debate if you must make a point, prepare if you see the same clouds, and discard it if you disagree. Make up your own mind in regards to timing and stop blaming someone else for "leading" you or your family members "astray".
The point is its stormy outside, so travel safe and if you believe its all sunny from here then leave your umbrella at home.
After all whats the worst that can happen?
USSR = USA
In sequence
OVERTURE IN SOCIAL CRISES
8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9-zbEtHcRo
BUSH
43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxm5bXQz95M
BUSH
44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4WkK7lB7o
BUSH
45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkrtHzZvcn0
KIDS DYEING..
26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygXrGEZKw3I
DIAL 911 FOR TERRORIST ASSISTANCE
47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kSj7ahQJf8
PRODUCT OF 911
48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJJx66JPGjE
49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO3kw0zDFR4
While Stalin alone murdered 50 million whites in post WWll, Western world democracies over 250 http://www.causes.com/causes/546680
THE REAL DON'T ASK; DON'T TELL, BUT QUIETLY DIE !!! MUST READ VIDEO TEXT
69
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI6n-mvfQUo
& REAL WIKI LEAKS OR CIA http://www.causes.com/causes/552219
Wikileaks/CIA $$$ financing source
12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfpuS4mnTbg
Many things you claim are very hard to believe, and this one just adds to the pot. It certainly doesn't help your credibility, when I think think of a number of other bigger ones and TAE doesn't even come close. So, now's yet another chance to elaborate on how you make this very surprising claim.